Source: More or Less Podcast
Podcast Date: July 12, 2025

Translation: Lenaxin, ChainCatcher

This article is a compilation of a deep conversation between More or Less Podcast and Solana founder Anatoly Yakovenko. He dissected the industry's periodic table of "punk, hoodie, suit," pointing out that AI is merely a product while crypto is a movement. He revealed how stablecoins are quietly driving the global dominance of the US dollar. Additionally, he elucidated Solana's challenge to mobile app store monopolies and proposed that the future of the crypto industry lies not in mass adoption but in catering to a high-net-worth niche.

Key Insights:

AI is just a product, while crypto is a movement.

If Bitcoin becomes an equivalent hedge asset to gold, the crypto market can be deemed victorious.

Developing dedicated hardware and app stores for crypto users, charging low fees, can pave a new path amid tech giant monopolies.

When stablecoins are backed by real assets such as government bonds, they will disrupt the traditional financial system.

The current market's perception of stablecoins is both overly fixated and severely underestimating their potential.

The genuine market demand remains highly concentrated on USD-backed stablecoins.

When individuals are immersed in such echo chambers for an extended period, cognitive dissonance between perception and reality becomes inevitable.

As idealistic individuals exit, their voices also fade away.

Opening Story: Anatoly's Journey and the Birth of Solana

Rosa: Could you please give a brief background and overview of the founding of Solana?

Anatoly: I was born in the Soviet Union. My parents immigrated immediately after the fall of the Berlin Wall, more precisely right after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. I grew up in Chicago, arriving in the US at the age of 11, coinciding with the peak of Michael Jordan's era in the Chicago Bulls, fully immersed in that wave of enthusiasm. I spent the entire 90s there, later pursuing a computer science major at Illinois State University.

At that time, during the mobile revolution wave from 2004 to 2015 at Qualcomm, I participated in all mobile R&D projects you can think of, interacting with all mobile operating systems at the time.

As for the catalyst for founding Solana, it happened one day when, after drinking two cups of coffee and a bottle of beer at Soleil coffee shop in San Francisco in the midst of the mobile revolution, I couldn't sleep at 4 a.m. Suddenly, the inspiration struck. Six months later, I pitched this idea to Sam Russo at Slow bar.

The Evolution Track of the Crypto World: Punk, Hoodie, and Suit

Rosa: We are currently in a critical period: regulations have significantly loosened, and innovative projects are emerging rapidly. In your opinion, what is the current market situation? What are the key differences compared to a year ago?

Anatoly: I see many similarities between the crypto movement and other technology waves, such as the open-source movement. Objectively speaking, AI is closer to a specific product rather than a social movement. This development pattern has always followed a fixed trajectory: initially pioneered by punk rebel geeks, then commercialized by hoodie entrepreneurs, and finally fully taken over by suit-clad capital.

Currently, we are in a delicate transition period where entrepreneur hoodie teams are becoming more mature, and suit-clad capital is just beginning to explore how to incorporate this industry, trying to transform it into a form no different from traditional industries.

Rosa: Speaking of capital inflow, now hedge funds and traditional asset management companies are issuing various crypto products. Are you suggesting that they will directly embrace the underlying blockchain technology?

Anatoly: Stablecoins are a ready-made success story. These programmable currencies are simply perfect, especially when they are backed by real assets such as government bonds, effectively disrupting the traditional financial system built on fax machine technology since World War II.

Rosa: What is the actual value of stablecoins to the U.S. mainland?

Anatoly: When the world is craving for the U.S. dollar, if Tether or Circle becomes the standard bearer of programmable dollars, the U.S. can only go with the flow. After all, the current global economic scale has made the transformation of the dollar system inevitable. Ordinary consumers will certainly not give up credit cards, but the collaboration model between Visa and banks will undoubtedly be innovated as it can directly reconstruct the entire settlement system based on stablecoins.

Observing the Evolution of the Crypto Ecosystem: From Store of Value to Meme Economy

Sam: Will traditional financial institutions' adoption of cryptographic technology follow an overt transformation or a covert infiltration model?

Anatoly: The key lies in functionality. If a bank only allows holding Bitcoin without supporting actual usage, the situation will become nuanced. When this model scales, Bitcoin may evolve into digital gold. Although from a Security Analysis perspective, neither Bitcoin nor gold can be valued using a discounted cash flow model.

The inherent motivation for people to hold them is fear, just as my parents fled the Soviet Union with gold during its dissolution. Today Bitcoin plays a similar role, perhaps the only reasonable explanation. If Bitcoin were to one day become a mainstream hedge tool on par with gold, then no matter how you define success, the entire crypto market can be considered successful.

Sam: As traditional valuation models widely fail, what is the fundamental difference between crypto assets and stocks/gold? Isn't gold also a millennia-old meme?

Anatoly: The difference lies in scale. When this meme of gold reaches the trillion-dollar level and forms global consensus, it reflects some essence of human civilization, as we have always been storing and transferring value using abstract concepts.

Sam: Can you compare the different value systems in the crypto space?

Anatoly: The abstraction of Bitcoin makes it challenging to value with an engineering mindset, but Solana's positioning is very clear: it is fundamentally an efficient information transmission channel. When users engage in token transactions, they are essentially broadcasting valuable information. Since the system only executes the earliest matched transaction, a natural incentive mechanism for transaction priority fees is formed. The higher the transaction volume the channel handles, the higher the revenue generated. Whether Bitcoin or USDC is transmitted is not important; the system processes only data flow.

We are fortunate to live in an increasingly prosperous world, and as people have more disposable funds, they naturally invest in various interesting things. For example, meme coins; some find it amusing to issue a meme coin parodying Biden called "Bowdoin."

Rosa: Are all meme coins based on Solana?

Anatoly: Currently, the vast majority are. Although there are a few of the highest market cap on Ethereum, Solana births 20-50k new meme coins daily, peaking at over 100k during high times.

Sam: Why is the infrastructure construction of the meme coin ecosystem seriously lagging behind?

Anatoly: This is actually a systemic engineering challenge. Whenever value distribution is involved, there will be people trying to exploit loopholes. It's like when selling phone promotions, there are countless virtual numbers being used for gains.

Crypto Phone Strategy: Decoding the Platform War

Rosa: Why did Solana choose to enter the mobile hardware field?

Anatoly: This stems from my professional background: having worked deeply in the mobile industry for over a decade, I was able to build a core team. The current internet should be open and free, but it has been enclosed by companies like Apple through a "walled garden" model to monetize users. Even though they have created value, this closed ecosystem is suffocating.

Apple, Google, Meta are all extracting user value through a walled garden mechanism. While their products are indeed excellent (for example, I am currently using Google's free email AI), cryptographic technology can break this monopoly. Because NFTs, meme coins, and other digital assets have scarcity, platforms find it difficult to charge a 30% fee like they do for in-game items. After all, these are not endlessly reproducible virtual goods.

The scarcity of crypto assets has completely changed the rules. Take Cryptopunk NFTs as an example: there's only one globally, unlike in-game items that can be duplicated infinitely. When a user spends $10,000 to purchase, the Apple App Store cannot levy a 20% fee. Users won't accept it, and the issuer will find it hard to bear.

This fundamental conflict reveals an opportunity: by developing exclusive devices and app stores for crypto users, and charging fees much lower than traditional platforms (e.g., 0.5% instead of 30%), a new path can be paved within the giant's monopoly.

Rosa: Is the business model based on earning transaction fees?

Anatoly: Just like Binance or Metamask, charging minimal fees for massive crypto transactions. Although the rates are less than 1/30th of traditional platforms, the average transaction amount per crypto user is tens of times higher than that of a regular internet user.

Rosa: To attract talent to build crypto infrastructure, is it necessary to adjust the existing incentive system?

Anatoly: The key lies in targeting users. I cannot determine if the general public needs crypto products. However, although the existing crypto user base accounts for only 1% of the global population (about 100 million people), their Average Revenue Per User (ARPU) is tens of times higher than that of the regular internet user.

Just as Pump.fun's founder remains determined to challenge TikTok after achieving initial success, entrepreneurs are always pursuing their ultimate goal.

How Stablecoins Impact the Global Monetary Landscape

Rosa: How will the listing of stablecoins like Circle impact the crypto financial ecosystem?

Anatoly: The current market's understanding of stablecoins exhibits a clear contradiction: both excessive focus and a serious underestimation of their potential. Imagine a scenario where the global stablecoin circulation reaches $50 trillion, meaning the complete digital transformation of the dollar, becoming the daily circulating currency in Europe, Southeast Asia, and even Africa.

In an environment lacking official US government support and facing strict regulatory pressure, the stablecoin market has surpassed $250 billion in size, and this development trend will continue to accelerate.

Rosa: Has there been a shift in the current global regulatory stance on stablecoins?

Anatoly: Indeed, the regulatory attitude has shifted this year, but the legislative process will still take 2-4 years to complete. Bitcoin has formed a unique value belief system, and the development trajectory of other crypto applications, similar to the early days of email technology, cannot be accurately predicted.

Sam: How will stablecoins impact the global monetary landscape?

Anatoly: The data clearly reveals the current landscape: the development of the Euro stablecoin is impeded, and the Renminbi stablecoin primarily relies on policy drive.

However, real market demand remains highly concentrated on the USD stablecoin. Even street vendors in Argentina commonly use USDT to hedge local currency inflation risks. This grassroots-driven dollarization process may instead further solidify the USD's global dominance.

Rosa: Does this mean that "localized stablecoins" are just wishful thinking by VCs?

Anatoly: Within the current financial infrastructure framework, the USD stablecoin indeed effectively addresses actual payment pain points. Just as cross-border e-commerce widely adopts USD settlement as an existing model, the on-chain economy is spontaneously forming a similar USD-dominant settlement zone. Unless faced with mandatory policy intervention, this network effect-based monetary landscape will remain stable.

Sam: Is the global penetration of the US dollar stablecoin reshaping a new paradigm of US dollar hegemony?

Anatoly: In terms of actual impact, the micro-level spontaneous choice holds more influence. When Argentine street vendors autonomously adopt USDT for trade settlement, this grassroots dollarization process is more effective than any policy intervention. If the stablecoin market size surpasses $1 trillion in two years, it would mean that 5% of the global US dollar supply has transitioned to on-chain form.

The Dilemma of Public Opinion in the Crypto World

Rosa: Linda has a powerful network of media, clients, and industry insiders. I believe her future is still bright. This issue closely follows Grok's controversy, where Grok made anti-Semitic remarks, yet Musk downplayed it. What's your take on this storm?

Anatoly: This is the norm of the Internet; there are always those spreading malicious intent. Interestingly, people try to use cryptocurrency to solve such problems, such as developing anti-counterfeit coins. However, once an AI system opens to public input, it is bound to be intentionally crossed. To be honest, Grok's remarks were relatively restrained.

Rosa: In the crisis of information trust, can cryptographic technology reconstruct a trusted verification mechanism?

Anatoly: It is more likely to revert to prediction markets (Polymarket). Although there is room for manipulation, the scale effect will create a balance.

Rosa: How do you view Sequoia Capital partner Shawn Maguire recently being labeled an "Islamist" for his comments on the Mandani project?

Anatoly: While I do not always agree with Shawn's views, sometimes he even appears aggressive, but I support the principle of free speech. The Internet should be able to accommodate different voices, and people can disagree with his views, but should not deprive him of the right to speak.

Rosa: Why did Shawn Maguire choose controversial remarks rather than a professional approach to gain attention?

Anatoly: This phenomenon is fundamentally related to the essence of the Internet's information quality dilemma: a cognitive audience often seeks to maximize information absorption and form judgments on everything, while algorithms continue to push content that reinforces existing biases to maintain user engagement.

For example, if a user believes that Curry's shooting is inefficient, the system will loop a clip of his missed shots. When an individual is immersed in this type of information cocoon for a long time, the inevitable outcome is a disconnect between their perception and reality.

Rosa: What is the Cryptopunk's attitude toward the current industry ecosystem? Are they raging with anger, or are they too busy raking in profits to care?

Anatoly: That's a very interesting question. Those who were truly angry punks have already left. Just like how no one remembers the open web before Facebook, when people who uphold ideals leave, their voices also disappear.

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